Maximum Fun Forum

Friends Adam and Will have a dispute about social networking. Is it Adam's responsibility as a young adult to get with the program and join the world of online social networking? Or is Will pushing his own life choices on his friend with his repeated requests for his friend to accept Facebook in his life?

I take offense to the attempt at black mail made, Dave Matthews Band is a wonderful musical group.

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this aint Narnia, kiddo...
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To whom it may concern,

This is Brian from the last case on the "clearing out the docket" section. I am so gosh darn disappointed by Judge John Hodgman's total cop-out in our case regarding the word "deceptively." Perhaps it was naive of us to spring such a nuanced case on Judge Hodgman when he is clearly resting on his laurels (yeah I said it) after brilliant decisions like the ones in "An Appeel-ate Decision Case" and "Parents Don't Understand." A quick survey of people will reveal that this issue is controversial, with respectable people standing on both sides of the debate.

I am curious to learn the opinions of Maximum Forum members regarding this issue, and am calling out Judge Hodgman for being, in my humble opinion, a veritable puss.

PS Still a huge fan.

This is a very complex question. I have thought about it quite a bit. My instinct is that you were both wrong. The ice cream container was the size it was and it contained the amount of ice cream it contained. You two just happened to be wrong about how much ice cream you were going to eat. If this is an accurate characterization, there was no deception.

Unless this was a trick ice cream container. Then it matter how it tricked you.

Deceptively means "in a manner that is deceiving." This is very ambiguous.
Deceptively large would mean "large in a manner that is deceiving." I think it would make most sense to read this only as "large in a way that tricks you" and never as "secretly large." So it might mean it is large but unimportant, large but with no room inside, or so large it is practically invisible for what it is (a large enough door may no longer be recognizable as a door).

If you in fact bought a large container of ice cream, and found you had actually bought a large container with very little space to actually contain things in (very thick sides, small compartment), I think it would make sense to call it a deceptively large container.

If you bought a large container that did not contain enough ice cream for you purposes, it was not "deceptively large."

If you bought an ice cream container that somehow used optical illusions to trick you into thinking it was larger than it was, it was neither "deceptively small" (because it's smallness is not what tricks you) nor "deceptively large" (because it is not large, and the adverb "deceptively" does not negate the adjective "large", it just complicates it). It was "smaller than it appeared to be."

This is my take on the matter.

Brian, I was also disappointed that Judge Hodgman side-stepped a ruling on your case. Ultimately though, a ruling would probably have involved a short primer on semiotics and deconstructionist literary theory that may not have been as fun to listen to as, say, thirty minutes on the use of strategy guides in the Mega Man franchise.

I think it would have been accurate of you to say "that ice cream container seems deceptively large" since "deceptively" in that case modifies the way the container appears to you. To say that "the ice cream container is deceptively large" would describe a large container that is conducting itself in a deceptive manner as NealAppeal has already pointed out.

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@MatthewAlanRoth

Brian, indeed neither of you are right or wrong, which is probably why JJHo skirted the case. Deceptive just means misleading. And as such can mean both greater or lesser than it appears to be:

de·cep·tive·ly
adverb /diˈseptivlē/ 

1. In a way or to an extent that gives a misleading impression

2. To a lesser extent than appears the case
- the idea was deceptively simple

3. To a greater extent than appears the case
- the airy and deceptively spacious lounge

"Deceptive" always needs a qualifier when using small and large, because we don't know whether you thought it was going to be larger or smaller than its actual dimensions at the outset. So you either need to not use "deceptively" or give the full context. Neither "deceptively large" or "deceptively small" is good usage on its own.

As such, "deceptively" is best used when the descriptor is clear. "Deceptively simple" always implies you originally thought it would be complex or difficult. "Deceptively spacious" always implies you originally thought it would be tiny and cramped.

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Flee The Scene Podcast | @DoctorHighFive

Being once upon a time a huge fan of them myself, I used to object to the knee-jerk DMB snark myself. I still do, come to think of it, because it's so cliched. Probably because it was all I heard from ages 13-23. I heard it so much it stopped being insulting because my taste was being criticized and started being annoying because I was apparently hanging around boring, uncreative types who couldn't think of another band to pick on.

As for the deceptive ruling... there's been interesting analysis above. My gut reaction would be to favor "Deceptively Large." As in, "The large size of this container gave me the impression that there would be more ice cream, but there wasn't." I'm trying to view it from the other side, but when I think "deceptively small," I think of something that holds more than it looks like it could. Like, "This purse is deceptively small, but I have a ton of Dave Matthews CDs in here."

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Semper ubi sub ubi - Cicero

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I can deal with people disliking a band, but I never understood how they became part of a cliche.

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this aint Narnia, kiddo...
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Did you go to college?

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The bums will always lose.

I am in college, so yes.

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this aint Narnia, kiddo...
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Yeah, but I also grew up in a rural town (and, being contemporary to you, Jesse, in the early days of internet) where, if you didn't like country music, your music options were limited. DMB seemed more my speed, and I listened to them when I did my homework and when I took long bike rides. By the time I got to college and was introduced to the "cliche" of pot smokin' and frat boy fans, I was already a pretty big fan. I was far too nerdy to have anything to do with those crowds, and the other DMB fans I encountered were similarly nerdy. I may not listen to the band as much as I used to, but I have fond feelings towards them because they were so important to the dorky, lonely girl I used to be. I cried when LeRoi died. I'll admit it.

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Semper ubi sub ubi - Cicero

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